1 Hour of Business Strategy with 7 Entrepreneurs | Inside 4Ds

– Because karma’s good. Like if you helped Carol get put on and she gets a $60,000
raise and gets to move back to San Francisco where her family is, that’s just putting good into the world. This portion is like with me, so I think this is when
you need to get selfish. Like you need to ask your question. (upbeat music) Hiring is guessing, firing is knowing. Like you gotta go fast. That’s how you get shit done, that’s how you figure stuff out. This is the television, and
the television is the radio. So 4Ds motherfuckers. So this is the time where I think you just kinda go really selfish and
ask your direct question. – So I’ll start. So we’re in the training manual
space, documentation, SOPs. – Yep. – And the biggest problem
we have is messaging and how to make it urgent, because small businesses
wanna do anything but sit down and just write
out all their processes. And I feel like a chameleon
with an elevator pitch in trying to describe what we do. So I’m curious on how you
would hone in on a message around why a business needs a playbook or how do you create urgency? – Um, so it might not be urgency,
so let’s start with that, but one more time, ’cause
I wanna really understand. You’re telling an SMB
that they should sit down and create a manual. – Or crowd source it
with all their people, so that all their policies,
processes, are in one place and they’re training their
new hires the same way. And as they grow, everyone’s doing things. – And you want all that information
to sit on your platform. – Yeah. – As a SaaS business? – Yes. – Understood. – So we’ve got about 1500– – I don’t think you should… It’s not about urgency. I think it’s about money. I think the way you’ll get
SMBs to really come in, if you’re message is… One of the biggest reasons I’m
really good at SMB marketing is ’cause my dad is like the cliche, textbook central casting of like an SMB. Everything’s defense. Everything’s like short term ROI. They’re not getting
tricked into lower funnel, it’s just lower funnel is what they do. SMBs don’t build brand,
they’re in the sales business. Everything is short term. It’s the nature of the beast. So I love these questions
’cause it’s so easy for me to go into my head and be like what would get my dad to do this? He would never sit down
and do it on theory. He would definitely not do it ’cause it was good for his employees. He wouldn’t. It’s just not what he is. He would definitely do it
if I could convince him that he’s wasting $8340 a year, because that’s how many hours are being wasted on managers training people that they could be doing in selling. You need to turn this
into a financial thing. You make one fuckin’ smart video that shows like humans equal money, and they waste time because
they’re telling Rick what to… Like you just paint them the scenario. Like you walk into a liquor store, let’s use that one, and you go, “Hey, do your managers train your new… “How do your new people come out?” Well they just fuckin’, we
throw ’em into the wild. Do they make mistakes and wrong stickers are put on things and you lose money? Yep. And do sometimes your manager have to ring up people at the register, because they didn’t know
what to do at the register, mhmm. Like do you understand how
much that’s actually worth if you take your average
manager who makes 65,000 a year, and you take 89 hours a month. You have to make this binary math. – It’s an ROI thing. – ROI thing. How much does your product cost? – It starts at 99 a month. – Perfect. You need to basically convince all of them that they’re wasting 200 bucks a month, and that you’re gonna
give ’em back 100 bucks. It will kill. Money in the bank. I don’t know if I’ve been more confident of a piece of advice in
4Ds since we started it. I’m not kidding. I’m not kidding. I’m that confident. SMBs are binarily on short term economics. If you tell them you pay me 100 bucks, what they’re very bad at is hidden costs. Small businesses are bad at hidden costs. They’re too binary. They don’t see the bigger picture, and this is obviously generalizing, but it’s very cliche. Especially when you come from zero. Cash is king, you’re looking at it. And you’re not saying like, you know… – Okay. A straight ROI conversation. – Yep. They just don’t wanna
give you 100 bucks a month for something that’s not gonna be used. You gotta convince them that they’re wasting 400 bucks a month on hidden fees, on hidden costs, that
your thing solves for. – Yeah, okay. – Like literally every one of ’em is training through osmosis, which is taking time out
of experienced workers to just teach the new kid what to do, instead of the new kid
spending a week, fuckin’… Do you understand? – Yeah, totally. Okay. The other thing we’re dealing with is I’ve done a lot of the content as just kind of a personal brand, and we hired a content manager, we hired a video producer, but we’re kind of unsure on
what to create content around. Is it the business or is it me, and how do we divide that? – You need to build the content around common day problems of SMBs. – Through our company channel? – Both will work. Those are both… I’m agnostic to that. If you started an entire series
of did you know for SMBs, you need to watch it. – I need them to… So just any kinda content. – The reason for all of us to do content is to have somebody watch it, to then create an opportunity. Whatever that may be. I’m secretly trying to crowdsource
buying the New York Jets. You may want to get more
people on your SaaS product. So I think that the
place where people spend a lot of time on is the
equipment, the lighting, the debate of personal brand versus logo, and what the only thing that matters is, make shit that people want to watch that you want to talk to. Right, that makes a lot of sense for you. It’s what you did. It’s why it may seem unique
when you tell it for them, the audience, but I so understand it, ’cause when you scratch your own itch and your itch is your community, it’s just perpetual. It’s how you stumble into your thing. You were doing this, and like… And so your job is to
make the best content in the world for small businesses. Right? You know, like how to
hire your family member. – And it’s broad, like talk
about documentation and– – Definitely not about documentation. That’s the curve ball, got it? Documentation is selfish. Making a video where
you interview somebody who teaches people how to fire relatives is thinking about small businesses. Right? That’s what small businesses… That’s one of the biggest issues every SMB has in the world right now. How do I fire my loser cousin? My fucked up aunt. You know? How do I limit my
grandfather’s yelling at me? Like it’s human stuff. You become that. It’s what I always talk about. Be the media company. Don’t make content that’s literal to you. – [Male] One of the
challenges we were talking to Ross about a little bit was just the… What has allowed us to scale this far is just direct response ads
on Facebook and Instagram. – Makes sense. – [Male] And so we have
gotten really good at identifying the pain, the
solution, here’s the product. – That’s good. – [Male] But we haven’t put too much into the building the brand
equity around the content like what you’re talking about. – And that’s what you wanna
do because it’s gonna get you a cack in your LTB numbers in
a much better place over time, especially when all the… What happens next to
this whole Gary V era, where a lot of people have
won off of the thesis, is enough money comes in where
the ads don’t work anymore. That’s what happens next. Let me tell you what
2022’s gonna be about. Everybody that plays… That’s why I’m glad you’re here. ‘Cause you’re gonna go, you’re gonna take advantage of the pay. It’s why I’m glad you’re here, you’re taking advantage of the pay and you need to build brand. You guys are on the opposite spectrum. And if you don’t have both
you become vulnerable. Vulnerable. You don’t get the max upside. You can be more like, you know. I think a lot about like how I… I’ve been thinking a lot about how I talk, like vulnerable isn’t
you go out of business, vulnerable is like you don’t keep growing, and when you don’t keep
growing, things could happen. Maybe you’re spending too
much in your lifestyle, based on how your business is, and all of a sudden it stops growing, then you actually become vulnerable. Those are the things I think about. But yeah you have to build brand. – I’m curious, in scaling
so fast in your business, how did you make sure the
knowledge transfer happens? – Osmosis. Yeah so like I am not as comf… Like my whole company
wants to use your product except for me ’cause I’m an
entrepreneur and I’m SMB. That’s why I know what you need to do. I’m real tricky for you ’cause I don’t care about money either. But most do. So it’s okay that I’m
all the way over here. I’m not gonna be the
guy but like for the SMB that doesn’t want to
do it in the proper way and wants osmosis, she
or he will take you up on I will save you $4000, here’s how. And by the way, we wasted enormous time on senior people training
people through osmosis. And where we started evolving
into more products like you is I started realizing wait a minute, not everybody learns like me. So I got Ds and Fs. And so maybe we do need
stuff like this in place. – Do you think that… Have you seen B2B SaaS products leverage influencers and celebrities and that sort of thing
as an effective thing? – They will. They will. Sure. – Is there some– – Of course, Go Daddy
ran several commercials. Right? You know, of course. Mail Chimp. Like a lot of these less
expensive, like your products. – [Male] Like with our marketing, when we really started to take off it was like the ads we
were running were just the two of us walking and
talking on the street. – Keep doing that. – And we got a point where
like we tripled our team and felt like we should
be producing higher, more production, and– – It didn’t carry as well. – [Male] Yeah it didn’t go as well. – Just keep it raw. – Keep it valuable. It’s not about raw, it’s about valuable. Star Wars is valuable. I go into a theater, I
escape from my real life for three hours, like it’s escapism. You guys doing high
production is not escapism. Keep it valuable. You made a commercial, potentially. Yeah like people think raw, production, I think value not value. Making a video that looks great but it’s just there for you to get a sale is less valuable to the other
person on the other end. You guys shooting the shit
and actually talking about real shit clearly was more valuable. – Another thing we just
did, it was kind of a test, but it felt like cheap attention, and it was getting banner
ads in the airport, in the concourse. – Yeah. – We don’t have a campaign strategy yet, but if you were trying to target SMB business travelers in an airport, is there like a call to action or? – I would do, in that scenario,
which I like real life, like media, if it’s under priced. I like the idea of going literal. Are you a small business? Do you have a business problem? Text us, and put a phone number. You collect the data, I like that. I would do that. – Okay. – You get first party
data, you can call them, you can see it through, you
can see how it’s working. – The direct response text. – Maybe you make a funny little asterisk and be like we will not
save your information. Maybe you show a picture
of yourself, like you know, so you can play. Let me bounce around,
we’ll come around again. – [Male] Sure, I guess
what I’m trying to do is build community through,
I guess, first responders and then my identity markers. That’s basically all I wanna do. – And first responder, help me, just ’cause I wanna get educated. – [Male] Sure, so like fire
fighters, ER nurses, cops. People that are first to accidents. – Understood. And those people, you want
to get their attention to be their lawyer? – [Male] No, to be the first person that everybody thinks of of the hottest people on the scene to respond to be a referral, but then also the deepest
relationship which you can have, which is probably mirroring
your identity markers of like I ID catholic Sicilian Irish. If I could have complete
penetration of those audiences, I think that that would be
disproportionately valuable as to going after other audiences. – Okay, keep talking
’cause I wanna ground this. Working backwards, you have a law firm, and we wanna get people’s businesses. And so we, first responders are
incredible lead gen to that. – [Male] Yeah. I mean I would say if they refer you they’re going out to the scene, they’re helping people
that have been in wrecks or in various different emergencies. – I understand. – Situations. If they know and like you and trust you from the sense that you’ve
been doing content– – Yep, I totally agree. So just as somebody
who, I guess, thank god, hasn’t been in this scenario yet and just haven’t dug in, some accident happens and the relatives that are left over, that
aren’t at the hospital, may look at a cop or a
first responder and say, “Can you give me a lawyer right now?” – [Male] Yeah who can help us, right. – That’s cool, I just have never… – [Male] Yeah, hottest… First to the customer, right. – Yeah I totally understand. Okay, have you considered in parallel, building the most macro
brand in the general area as well with the end consumer? – [Male] That’s what I’m
trying to do through the blog. So I got a whole camera set up, I took your long form
content, six highlights, hour long, trying to get to 52 weeks so I can have full penetration. – How long you been doing it? – [Male] I’m on episode… I’ve taped six, released four. – And what are you feeling so far? It’s so early obviously. You know it’s funny, I’ve
always thought lawyers… When I first started talking about this I’m like fucking lawyers,
right, because… In a good way, in a good way, because I was thinking,
you know, if you think, like I always say what I’m really good at is not knowing anything
and asking questions. Curiosity and lack of education has been an incredible foundation for me. But you think about all that
stuff on remnant Television, where the lawyers are there, right, and I’m like, you know… And then when I got older and like when I started like… Just through like being
in a business cocktail you hear like some of those companies are sizable businesses, and
I’m like makes sense, right? And so when I started
going to this version, no different than they’re like hey guys, make something that’s valuable
to people instead of, right. I was like man. I even think in my earliest videos, when I was talking about personal brand, I was like be the lawyer that tells people all the real shit. Like I just feel like that’s great. That makes so much sense to me. So now, I understand that now, so now what you’re asking me is targeting capabilities
that if you’re in a town that all the cops are Irish America, like how do I win that? – [Male] Yeah like building
basically within that. – Cohorts. – [Male] The group’s
doing a party once a year with the cohorts, and then
I’m gonna do a boxing thing where I wanna get all the lawyers in town, have every lawyer come. I’m gonna probably box in six months. And then every like year
I’m gonna have other people from different like factions
within the lawyer community do amateur boxing. – Love it. Where are you based? – Houston. – So, okay. So now that I’ve got the
landscape a lot better, what’s the question? – [Male] Basically how
do I build up communities that details, 100 details
that every one idea takes to execute. How do I best go about becoming the alpha one each
one of these communities? – In the phycho and
demographic communities? By providing each one of
them what they’re looking for either in the macro or the micro of what you do for a living. So, you know SMB works for me
so much is like I’m trying to tell them to put out content
about how to fire a relative, has nothing to do with their product but I know that’s a huge
value to actual SMBs. I think the answer is, the way I think about that is you take the, how many different communities
do you think there are? Intuitively? – [Male] Well there’s a ton I mean right? But you have to narrow
down to three or one or four that you can go really deep on. – And I think what you
do is you whiteboard the ten that you think
are the most meaningful. – [Male] Yeah I got that. – Then rank ’em. And then really go deep in the first three of like really spending time. Whether reading, whether
actually spending time. But it’s the strategy and
insights to make what they like, what makes them tick
and then providing that. Whether through content
form or event form. Its really one big game
of reverse engineering. Like this was something
I’ve wanted to do for years. But until I felt like everybody, for the far majority would leave here ROI positive on their investment, like, the thought of like building
up everything I’ve built up, where like you two brothers don’t do it and then leave and then
say, “Gary V’s a farce, “I spent 12,000 bucks and
it didn’t get me anything.” That’s just stupid business for me. I needed to get to a place where I thought this was so overwhelmingly
ROI positive, you know? And that’s how I think about everything, literally everything. Sneakers, wine, Vayner Media. Until you get to a place and so, that’s just what I want you to kinda do, its like what does– – [Male] The only thing that
I can do that I can think of, is basically copying your
model which I’ve done for the lawyer aspect and I can
have all my friends come in and be the top lawyer guy
in that community right. But as I get more awareness
in the first responder group, I would love to have a show of, the firefighter comes to the car wreck. The ER is the first
person in the hospital. Having like a little drama, with people throughout the
community that you have– – I don’t know if you wanna. I mean listen, you’re just a creative guy, I can already sense that so
you just may want to do that. I actually think its a little less, ER and Law and Order. I think you make it a little bit more, so I’m a big fan, I’m sure
you guys have heard this, about like hosting the party. I think one of the things you can do is just create a podcast network. So like I think you should go
find two charismatic nurses and start a Houston nursing show. You’re the executive
producer, they’re the talent and that becomes a little
viral hit in that community. You see where I’m going? Ill give you a real left field one if you wanna be super creative. You could also, this is crazy but I would love for you to do this, I
think this is super cool, you could actually be the live streamer of the cop’s and
firefighter’s softball league. What if you acted like ESPN, had six people with live streaming and actually aired the
softball league games. – [ Male] Yeah that would be great. – Yeah I mean if you’re lucky enough and if you live in one of those towns where the cops do play
against the firefighters. Like, or, you could literally
create the Thanksgiving game. Cops versus firefighters. Get a field, get a high
school to support it. Film it and air it live on Facebook and own the, you know,
the First Responders Cup. You could probably get a sponsor to come over and subsidize
all your fucking fees. You could literally throw the
fucking Thanksgiving game. Every fucking Friday. Like, you see where I’m going? – [Male] What I wanna do, I wanna create basically the best– – I think its a lot easier to throw– – [Male] Than the community. – I think the best thing you
can throw is a literal podcast, its the most likely thing you can pull off is a podcast network. The next more likely
thing you can pull off is actually airing the softball
games or the football games. The last thing you’re probably likely to pull off is creating ER. You’re not producing a show. – [Male] Okay. – That’s hard as fuck. Scripted. – [Male] It would be like
interview based, basically. – That’s different. That’s different. – [Male] Tell me your experience of– – That’s different, that’s different. That’s different. That’s different but less reoccuring. – [Male] Yeah it’d be harder to go deep on that, that’s for sure. – And it’d be one off. Once you interview Karen. Whereas– – [Male] You’ll have more people. – Whereas if you’re
doing a show for nurses in Houston and just the culture of that and its a call in, you
see where I’m going? You wanna create things
that are like scalable. Wine library TV was amazing. I tasted wine. Which meant I could live 400 lifetimes and never get to every wine. Right? Ask Gary V. Think about the shows I’ve made. Wine library TV. Scalable in perpetuity, I can’t
taste every wine in my life. Not in a hundred lives. Ask Gary V, unlimited questions
from the audience forever. Daily vlog, I actually live just film me. There was never, I never had to create. See where I’m going? See? Got it? That’s what you’re looking for. My man. – You know we were
launching the home owner now and we think that if you’re
a consumer right now, right, home ownership rate is at 64% in America. It’s the most its been since the crash. – 64% of Americans own a home. – [Male] Adults, correct. 220 million people, 64% it’s
the highest in a long time. And by the way, just
so you know, to clear. When you made your comments
about owning a home and investing, I was all about that. – ‘Cause you’re entrepreneurial. – [Male] Right. Its all situational right. – 100%. – [Male] And I got where your coming from. You’re not saying don’t ever own a home. I mean its like you got a million dollars and you live in New York,
where you gonna put it? – If I did a better job clarifying it. – [Male] You did. That podcast the next week was– – Yeah I was glad I did that. But even funny, like what
I really, really realize is the thing I’m most upset about, or like want to bring,
upset’s the wrong word. The thing that I would wish people do, I did it, everybody does it. The number one conversation is, let’s stop overextending
ourselves with our down payment. It is unbelievable. Almost every single person,
when they buy a home, think the home is such a great investment that they basically, every
dollar they have in liquid, is their down payment. Then they get a mortgage, now
they have no fucking savings and they’re living for that mortgage. – [Male] Brother we live that every day. – That’s what like, my
big thing now is like, you know how like Oprah started the whole movement for like, you know, every woman in America, go get checked up. Go to the doctor on your birthday. Like I’m so proud of, like
that was such a smart thing. She like found a very simple way for a lot of women during the
80s and 90s and early 2000s to remember to go to the doctor. I wanna create a rule of like, whatever your net, however much liquid you have, half of that is what your allowed to put on a down payment on your home, ’cause that’s 64’s gonna
be 39% when the fucking thing collapses because
everyone’s so overextended, they can’t support the mortgage
when they lose their job. – [Male] You know, there’s
a huge misconception in our industry that you
need 20% down to fund a home and that is absolutely incorrect. In fact we always promote
generally, as a trusted advisor, that you should put down
as little as possible, assuming you can afford
the payments right? ‘Cause if you’re renting, you’re paying 100% interest to a landlord. – Yes. – [Male] And that’s what made everyone in Europe rich and there’s no middle class. So at least now in America,
its still affordable. It’s the number one way to generate wealth and so, you don’t have to have 20%. Use your cash, cash is king,
use it for other things. Like invest in yourself. But if you’re gonna live somewhere, you’re paying rent anyway. If you’re paying 1500 bucks
a month or New York, 4000– – Talk to me about that
perception because I’m fascinated. Most places you don’t
have to put 20% down? – [Male] No, if you’re
a veteran, its zero. If you live in the outskirts, you get an agriculture
USD loan, zero money down. FHA loans, three and a half percent down, which you can get gifted from a friend. And now there’s even
crowd source go fund me, funds allowed as a kind of
a pilot through Freddie Mac. If you do a conventional
loan it’s 5% down. Perception though comes from at 20% down you have an 80% loan to value, you don’t owe mortgage
insurance in addition. – I see. – [Male] So everyone’s
trying to avoid the MI. – I totally understand. – [Male] But you’re trying to avoid the MI by spending all your cash,
then you can’t invest yourself in everything else alive. And so it’s okay for your– – Cool. – [Male] So your first home, it’s okay, you’re first time home buyers at 32, okay, the average age. So to get into that house is
where we want people to be, ’cause you start
generating wealth for you, your family, generations to come. So as a consumer– – Yeah but isn’t that an interesting, like just for my own knowledge, I think it’s interesting to me. Like generating wealth on something that you owe 80 to 95% now to pay off, you’re generating an asset in 20 years. Right? – [Male] Sure. – It’s an interesting fucking debate. – [Male] But see you actually, when you say about cash is
king and not being it down, you’re actually making the argument. – I understand, I understand,
of course I understand. – [Male] Because you’re
already paying rent anyway. – I totally understand. – [Male] Because don’t forget, the asset appreciates over time, average– – To your point, to your point, what I need to add layers to is actually the livelihood, I’m
thinking about living it. So like there’s a big delta
between what you’re renting, what you’re buying. It’s all one big game, the same thing, which is, to your point,
how one uses their cash. – [Male] Well I love how you talked about a young entrepreneur. Like these guys are perfect examples. Good job man, you’re out of Boston, it’s way warmer where you’re at, you get to see him once a month. So this dude floats around,
but he’s a little more anchored but you float around. So I float around, I’ve
floated around my whole life, I’m 42, after I left
Austin I had my first place I bought in Austin, right. So I bought my condo, I
still own in, I rent it out. Someone’s paying for that, on that asset. Then I lived in Chicago, I moved to Tampa, I was living there for six months each, moved to Fort Lauderdale, I
bought multiple properties in Fort Lauderdale. I didn’t sell them and use
the cash for my next thing, ’cause I saved cash. All those properties are now rented out. So someone else is
paying for my retirement, and my winter home if I ever get so lucky. Now I’m in Newport Beach and
I bought an apartment there. So when you have that lifestyle
and you can float around, Airbnb income is now a
verifiable income source for you to purchase a
home as an individual. And so you touched on
on one of your videos about maybe you don’t
wanna be anchored down, but now the industry is evolving as well, those that don’t wanna
anchor down like I have, then you can just rent it out, ’cause there’s always renters. I mean there’s always a renter. I pay warehouse, renter’s warehouse, I pay them 80 bucks a
month, they take care of it, they send me a text,
comment needs to be done, yep I’ll do it, cool. – Yeah I totally get it. – [Male] And someone’s
paying for my wealth. – I love it. Go ahead. – [Male] Okay, so if you’re a consumer and you’re trying to find… You’re looking about
9.3 9.8 different places for information and you’re
trying to come up with buying a home online. So those eyeballs are out there, they’re on YouTube, they’re
on everything you’ve got. So then when you wanna actually
engage as a “ready buyer”, you know, if you asked
the first time home buyer, like what do you think of when
you think of mortgage, right? They’ll be like I don’t
know, Rocket Mortgage? So Rocket Mortgage is a
call center in Detroit. – I’m aware. – [Male] That’s it. So if I’m smash hit for Miami-Dade, I’ma talk to some little
white dude on a headset in Detroit to get my
loan that might not be– – Yeah but Dan Gilbert’s
ability to get somebody who can speak Spanish is not very hard. Not to… Of course they have them. So that argument’s not gonna play. – [Male] No, but the argument
though is that local experts have local knowledge, and
only a local expert, right? So we wanna bring this back down to the community level, right? So you know, you’re in your community, we’re all deeply rooted in our community. A real estate agent or a loan originator has knowledge in their brain
about their local community, like that’s a good neighborhood,
that’s a bad neighborhood, here’s how you mange your debt, okay I know where you work,
I know where you’re going, I got a hedge guy, this is the bad school, this is the good school. All those things, those
knowledge bases right there, they aren’t out there
in the fintech world. – I understand. – [Male] They’re built up
over living in a community for 10, 20, 30, 40 years– – What the fintech companies are gonna do is win the top of the funnel and then address those things underneath. – [Male] That’s right. But that’s right. So there’s a commoditization
going on in our industry, it’s mostly driven by price.
– Correct. But the difference between– – And brand. – [Male] Correct. Which is the guerrilla marketing part that I like about this. – This is my whole argument. Like you’re not gonna beat technology, the only thing that’s gonna
allow anybody to survive as things get commoditized
and driven down, the internet will drive
everything to the lowest dollar, and you’re not gonna beat somebody who’s much more well funded than you. The only thing that plays is brand. – [Male] Agreed, which is why we’re here, and all these fintech companies, they’re not coming here, they aren’t… Our business is filled with
old stodgy bankers, right? So like I brand myself and
my reputation as you put it, on LinkedIn, and so I
put out videos of myself. I’m the only C level
executive in our industry, the only owner of a mortgage lender, that’s literally talking about like hey I went to this
mortgage event last week and I saw Darren Hardy speak and he said this, this and this. And you know, by the way, when
you’re in a business meeting, isn’t it funny how you
know someone who’s like grabbing their eye or
scratching their nose and you know you’re about
to shake that person’s hand? Let’s just be self aware
of something like that. So I don’t wanna go humor with that. I cannot tell you, I go everywhere, I get all these just
dude I love your videos, I love your content, it’s hilarious. – Of course. – [Male] And so yes, so
brand, that’s me branding to our subscriber network. – You’re talking about the
end user, I understand. – Yeah, I need them to… They’re gonna pay 495 a month to start, we already have about 270 subscribers. The game plan is to have
7500 real estate agents and 7500 loan originators
within three years. We think that’s super doable. We need to brand to the consumer. That’s this part, this is
what I’m here, for this, is I want the consumer to know… So if you’re a consumer
and you think mortgage, you think Rocket Mortgage,
you might say Lending Tree ’cause there’s some branding out there, or you just might say I don’t know. And so the mind share– – Which means then you go to Google, and then it becomes a tollbooth game. Your industry and many service providers, for the last 15 years have been playing one big game of whoever was the layer above Google itself, the next tier, won. OpenTable, billion dollar company. Priceline, Angie’s List, HomeAdvisor. This is all the same shit. Google was the tollbooth,
everybody that was localized or was a big player
before was emotional on why they’re better than the internet. Some people got funding,
one Google search, and became the fucking winners. – [Male] And right now it’s Quicken. They bought all the ad words. – I’m aware. I’m aware. – [Male] But I don’t wanna
be a necessary like search, I love all the other– – You can’t do search,
it’s too expensive for you. Search, if I was Gary V in
2000, I built on search. Everybody’s like he won on social, I won on search and email. The reason I won bigger on social, ’cause I’m like oh this is the same thing, and this time I got smart, I’m like I’m gonna invest in this shit. Right? Then that’s how I won. Then, the next tier was fuck it, I’m gonna do it to myself. I’m gonna become the top of the funnel because then I can fucking
open wine or a sneaker or a fucking… I can open a Vayner
anything and be a player. I can build a real real
estate brokerage right now. Vayner Realty, help you
build your personal brand, that’s the only thing
that actually matters, and I’m gonna take a
smaller cut than RE/MAX, I’m a problem. – [Male] You are. – I’m aware. So that’s why I’m excited
about this conversation. So– – [Male] So the economics
are gonna play itself out. This is not an economic play. – Brother, you got this figured out. It’s only that. And so I like where this
conversation’s going because I think you’ve got the groundwork, now let me give you the answer. Everything for you has
to be building the brand in places that are under
priced that you could afford. So, step number one,
giving you this verbatim. You have to go hit up
every single mortgage and real estate podcast that exists. Email them, I don’t give a fuck if they have eight fuckin’ listeners, email them and offer them
as little money as possible for them to live read your commercial at the top of the podcast. And that goes for all of you. Like small business shows, lawyer show… Like I don’t give a fuck
if they’re in Denver, like shit’s funny how it
actually trickles down. So you need to win podcast pre-roll, because I think it’s grossly under priced ’cause nobody knows what it costs. So that’s huge. YouTube videos targeted against
search queries from Google. The place where Quicken and OpenTable and all those guys haven’t gotten to yet, at the scale that makes
it impossible for you, is YouTube pre-roll based
on search query on Google. If you then can use your personality or whatever else you come up with, whatever your Geico or MetLife is. MetLife decided to use Snoopy, Geico decided to every six
months do something funny. If you have that as a pre-roll. You know Gary Vaynerchuk
goes and looks for a home or whatever terms are
important in your world, but then goes watches a
Jets video on YouTube, but Google has both sides of that funnel and you’re pre-rolling, and you’re like are you in the market for a home? I’m like I am. Before I watch that Jets video, that’s another play that
will absolutely work for you. But most of all, this is
for all of you as well, becoming the media company,
you become the tollbooth. You become Google instead
of being the second tier. That’s why I built Gary V. Because this is all going to Alexa. This is all going to… I mean this is how it’s gonna work. Hey Alexa, I need a mortgage. Amazon’s the problem. – [Male] Trust me, this is– – Hey Google, I need a chiropractor. That’s how it’s gonna work. And unless you’re in the
business of, you know, if it’s like hey Alexa I
need a social media agency, Alexa’s the problem. Hey Alexa, what’s Vayner
Media’s phone number? That’s the difference. That’s all that’s gonna be left. That’s all that’s gonna be left. Will it get to your industry? Will it get there fast enough that you give a fuck financially? But in the end, that’s the world. Brand, nothing else. That’s what it is. That’s what you have to do. That’s why content matters,
that’s why building your personal brand matters,
building your company matters, content, content, content. ‘Cause that’s your only
leverage against highly funded multi trillion dollar
funded global companies that are gonna try to get everything. – [Male] Great. So we’re branding ourselves, we’re trying a couple different methods. We’re starting with YouTube videos, like for example if you search, you know, the five things you should know about being a first time home
buyer or six pitfalls to avoid when listing a home. So we’re putting out video content. Our first wave, I guess
if you will, of marketing and building these data funnels, is that I’m using Sabrina Brian, who’s our spokesperson from Cheetah Girls. Just ’cause she’s free
and she’s part of our… She’s a friend of ours. And she’s got a wholesome brand, right? – Sounds right to me. Free and wholesome sounds great. – [Male] Right? So if someone picks that
video when they come in, we know they’re either
looking to buy a home or looking to list a home and then we know we can filter them out of our website. So the idea is to give a consumer, like if you go to Lending
Tree, you go to Zillow, you go to Rocket Mortgage,
just to talk to someone there, just to talk to someone you have to enter all this information. – I understand. – [Male] So we’re not doing any of that. – Smart. – [Male] We’re freely
giving away every single piece of information that–
– I think that’s right. – I think that’s right. I think that’s right. – [Male] And then the
consumer chooses, okay well– – Couldn’t agree more. – [Male] Here’s everyone
in my zip code or my city– – Brother, whoever brings the
most value to a customer wins. And what the last generation was about was give me your data, before
anybody knew how much data was worth, and
I’ll give you free stuff and we were all pumped. I mean some of you are too young, but for real, it was like whoa. 2002, 2001, 2003/4. Like I’ll give my email and
name but I get this for free instead of buying out of
this magazine for nine bucks. It was amazing. Now we understand that data’s valuable. We’re more reserved, we’re
a little more thoughtful, we’ll give it, I still
think we’re giving it, the privacy thing is grossly overrated. We don’t give a fuck. We don’t. We’re doing it every day. The mainstream media’s trying
to make us scared every day, we put all our fuckin’
information every day. We want convenience. The reason I like yours is not so much that I’m giving up the information, I just don’t wanna give up the two minutes to fill out all the shit. Time. – [Male] But they do at some point. – Of course, when you transact
you’re giving information. But the fact that you’re
putting it in the front, it’s what I do. I give away all my best
stuff for free in perpetuity, with maybe some rationale
eventually something might happen. I’m playing the ultimate game of it. Right? The bad version of me is I give a little and then it’s really a funnel for you to pay me $4000 a month
to be in my mastermind. Right? Or I’ll be scalable and sell you a $197 ebook on how to do this. – [Male] Those guys. – Those guys. – [Male] We struggle a little bit with whether to brand individually
one of our co-founders or whether we should, you know like– – Both. The answer to all of you is both. – [Male] Okay cool. ‘Cause Angie’s List kinda
has Angie at the front and then she has everyone else– – Both. – [Male] Okay cool. That’s okay. – It’s not only okay, it’s a
priority and my recommendation. Some people like the person
and some people don’t, thus you should do both. Some people love the idea
of like doing business with the person they see on
the other side of the video, some people like to think
that it’s an organization. No friction for the end
user, that is my religion. – [Male] Well I don’t wanna dominate time. I may think of some other things but I wanna save… You know I just got this Samsung S10+ with 1 terabyte of
internal memory by the way, and it came with TikTok, and you’ve been talking about TikTok. And it’s amazing the amount of views and eyeballs that are on that. I mean incredible. – They just happen to be
eight to 12 years old. – [Male] Well 18 to 24, there’s a… – There is but not like– – [Male] Like NBA is on
there, like I follow, it’s the only one I follow. – Of course, but 18 to 24’s on Instagram. Like TikTok is eight to 12. – [Male] Well I’m not seeing that, maybe they don’t show up in my feed but– – No no listen, I mean I think that, well don’t confuse the content producer with the content consumer. – [Male] Okay got it. – Got it. You’re not seeing it because
people are producing… I mean I’m producing TikTok, ’cause I want nine year
olds to be Gary V fans now. – [Male] Lil V. – I’m super in… Well that’s going fuckin’ five. Yeah. Because a nine year old is doing business. Like I genuinely think that there’s a very substantial chance that one of my biggest investment payoffs will be somebody who’s nine years old now, and when she or he is
building the next Facebook, demands that I’m an investor and that I will be able to
talk on stage in 21 years that my two billion dollar
exit on the Amazon of its day was predicated ’cause I was
making TikTok and Lil V content, and that became the gateway
drug to Sara wanting me to be an investor, and
that’s how I got the deal. – [Male] We want that long game as well. – I don’t understand how people don’t… I’m 43, like… In like 12 years I’m gonna be 55. Like I’m gonna be young. Young. People don’t think long term. So they think TikTok’s a waste of time, like cool, I’ll take all those customers. I’m not selling any
nine year old wine now. Hopefully– – [Male] I won’t sell a house either. – Exactly. – [Male] But we will at some point, and we want that mind share. We’re trying to get mind share. – If nothing else you’ll
see a trend in there that makes you a better
creator on Instagram. People don’t see hidden value, it’s like this hidden cost. People are too literal. That’s what they said about
social media as a whole. The reason nobody went into social media was that it was for kids. That’s what Facebook was. Facebook literally was made
fun of on a daily basis in real business, ’cause
I was in real business, for being for kids. Now it’s only for 60 to 80 year olds. (laughing) – [Male] Thank you. – [Male] So you talk about brand, I’m confused about the
right hook aspect of it. – Good. – [Male] So I’m building
brand, building brand, building brand and I
provided solutions to people, solutions they can buy, what I’m using, but I don’t, haven’t… We talked a lot about earlier this morning about advertising and taking
advantage of the opportunity. What’s your take, I mean
how do you handle brand– – Real quick, real quick. One thing is it’s working. I think you might be thinking that, I’m gonna give you a different perspective that I think you’re gonna enjoy. I think you should amplify your
jabs, not your right hooks. That’s it. – [Male] So spend money on the jab. Because the jab I do, people buy the stuff and I don’t even talk about it, it’s magical. – You’re more Larry Holmes
than you’re Mike Tyson. Me too. – [Male] Which, I’m cool with that. – Me too. Larry Holmes held a title
longer to Mike Tyson. – [Male] Second question. Building a media team, not knowing– – That first part really
resonated with you, right? – [Male] Yeah. – You got it? – [Male] I got it. – You’re done, you’re set. You properly thought about amplifying… You know, I’m getting goosebumps. Advertising comes synonymous with selling. So you were like fuck,
okay, I’m gonna spend money. In general I don’t like
throwing right hooks, ’cause I’m so good at jags, right? You’re like fuck, what am I gonna do? That’s, isn’t that fun? – [Male] I’ll get one
out of 100,000 comments that says– – You sold out. Yeah. Dude, I still get mad about that. I get it, I get it. I’m the same way, it’s why
I wrote the fuckin’ book. I literally thought about it so much from 2007, 8, 9 10, 11. I finally got to… What’s ironic about jab to jab right hook was on paper it seemed
like I was trying to help all the people who are
always selling, which I was. It’s like slow it down, like
a little romance, you know? Ironically it ended up helping more people that were all jabbing. You and I are probably unique
in the fact that our jabs, back to Larry Holmes, are
so effective that we win. There’s a whole group of people
who just give, give, give, and they actually have to ask. And they were scared to ask. A lot of people aren’t
natural sales people, a lot of people are
scared to make that move. It was really funny to watch it play out. I absolutely thought it was
gonna be all the, those guys, be like slow it down, a
little romance, right, like give value. And it ended up being
a bigger breakthrough for people that were giving value but not making any money ’cause
they didn’t know how to ask. It’s interesting. Anyway, you’re gonna
kill by amplifying jabs. ‘Cause you’re clearly bringing value. Brother, the only reason
you’re selling so much stuff is ’cause you’re bringing so much value. – [Male] I get that. – So I want you to make more people see the thing that
you’re bringing value in. – [Male] Yeah. – I spend all my, 80% of
my ad money, excuse me, unless I’m selling sneakers or wine, just ’cause I’m learning. Plus, I have a unique life where I have to use myself to understand certain things that I have to use for the agency. So I’m even doing things that I don’t necessarily want to be doing, like selling wine and
sneakers at some level, because it helps us so much with Vayner. Because my clients care
about selling product. But I spent almost all my
ad money on the content that organically shows me it’s doing best and brings the most value,
and then I spend my own money to help more people get value, ’cause I know it resonates with people. – [Male] And then when you have
something to sell, it turns. – That’s right. – [Male] Don’t advertise the store– – My big thing where I really made out, and this is where it’s
a little bit different potentially for what I know about you, is I don’t need to sell
a single thing as Gary V because I actually run Vayner Media. I really fuckin’ put myself in a good spot where I have zero need
to monetize my audience. – [Male] So does my retail business, is that a standalone business? – Yes. That’s where it can get real good. Though I like what I’m hearing in the relationship you
have with your audience. Seems like it’s organic,
seems like you’re selling things you believe in. Listen, nothing is more exciting than selling something you believe in. The second you get paid a million dollars under the table to even sell the glue, that’s when you’re fucked. But if you’re actually selling something you actually believe
in, you’ll fuckin’ win. My biggest problem with people is they sell something
they don’t believe in. It’s the thing that they’ve stumbled into, it’s the thing that they just think they’ll make the most money on. That’s the thing that
makes them most vulnerable super long term. If you fuckin’ love it
and you believe in it… There’s a lot of things I could be selling that would make me a lot
more money, you know? I love when people, when I do tra… Like I do things that I wanna be doing. Like I love showing
people that have 20 bucks how to like start living
their life with more money. That’s why I do Trash Talk. There’s literally people
that leave comments like Gary V, this is not
gonna help you buy the Jets. No shit, dick. I understand that eight
hours of my time is not, making $309 is not necessarily
the mathematical equation to get to the Jets. But is it? Because if I help 40 million
people live a much better life, if I’m $200 million short
when the time comes, can I crowd fund the last part? I think so. – [Male] You got me to buy your wine, just on your free advice. – I’m completely convinced
but when the time comes this whole country’s gonna
demand that I own the Jets, not want it. (laughing) I really believe that. I really genuinely believe that. – [Male] Full penetration. – Full penetration. Completely massive awareness. I still would much prefer to
be capable of doing it myself, ’cause I don’t like to ask,
which is really a funny thing if like then I ask the whole world. It’s almost like back to who I am, pulling from opposite directions. So that’s what I think. – [Male] Fascinating. Building a media team. – Yes. – [Male] Doing it
yourself or hiring a team. – Yes. Oh. I always think you should do it yourself, because I always think like I’m just a big fan of that in general. You know, we obviously
aspire to be the best. Like Vayner is one big attempt to do something I don’t believe in. Like I believe that everybody should do everything themselves. You learn, it’s cheaper,
you figure it out. And it’s back to like, almost
like this fun world I live in, and so what Vayner’s
entire, Sasha for sure, Vayner for sure, is if you have to, how do I create the greatest solution to something I don’t believe in? It’s why it’s working. Took me a while to realize
that’s what I was doing. – [Male] Yeah I see it, I see why. I have three media people. Hire young, smart, talented people, and then make them better than they could ever be on their own. But you make a lot of
mistakes along the way. – You do, you do, and I think that’s why we built Vayner Talent. We’re starting to understand it. We’re starting to think
about it differently. We have a new product we’re gonna roll out on the Gallery Media side to help people start their podcasts. There’s stuff I’m figuring out. I think of myself as like
the Incredible Hulk, right? Like I was a scientist, I had this thesis, and I don’t remember
exactly was it by accident, but like to me I’m like
I’m taking my own… Like the way I decided to
prove to the whole world that I was super right about how to brand, was to make myself the most famous fuckin’ person in America. From a place where didn’t
think you could build that kind of level of fame. And that’s kind of like
the process I’m in. I think one day that
whole trajectory of like first you do marketing
for your own business, then you do it for others, then
you do it back for yourself, like I almost think
like they’ll be a model named after me because I
think there’s a lot of people that will do it like me. Let me give you an insight
that might help you with this next chapter where
you’re building out the agency. Don’t be scared for people to
leave once you build them up. Most people walk that fine line, like if you build up Carol or the shop, well then Gary can hire them for Sasha. And that’s where people lose. You need to create a system
that everybody wants to go into. That’s how I think about it. The reason I’m willing
to like build up DRock, and I’m happy that Babin
got the Adobe thing, and like you know Claude and James. Like the reason I do that is ’cause first of all you have to be confident that you’re bigger than all of it to… If anybody’s better than you
you already got a problem. Second, humans are animals, they’ll sense if you’re suppressing it. And because karma’s good. Like if you helped Carol get put on, and she gets a $60,000 raise and gets to move back to San Francisco
where her family is, that’s just putting good into the world. – [Male] You don’t pay her the 60. – I mean look, I’ve
been more than happy to not wanna lose a good executive, but I don’t pay ransom, for sure. Anybody that even… If they’re the number one all time person and they come in with ransom vibes, it’s already over. I’ve always laughed about that, when somebody comes in and goes, “Gary, I’ve gotta talk to you.” You know, I’m like you’re f… Like it’s already… Like they could be the
single most important person, they’re already gone, ’cause I’m not… That’s just gonna make me unhappy. That makes me feel like a fuckin’ loser. So that’s number one. Number two, if they
come in and say, “Hey.” I love when they come
in and try to make me part of the process. I’ll overpay if you come at me correctly. Hey, I love it here,
you’ve been such a mentor, I’ve got this crazy
opportunity, it’s hard, I’ve got college loans. Like I’ve sometimes
thought somebody was a C and paid up because I liked
they way they came at me. And then sometimes you let them walk ’cause you can’t afford it, the delta. You know, they’re overrated by their association with the best. So there’s a lot of people who think they’re a lot better than they are because they’re associated with me. And sometimes you can’t close that delta. And you’re happy for them. That wasn’t like a… Yeah it was a little bit of a razz, but it’s far more of a
I’m happy, I’m like, uh. Like you’re going to a competitor and making fuckin’ 55%
more because you’re wearing a Vayner jersey and they need
that DNA in the building. – [Male] You’re welcome. – I’m happy, I’m happy. Listen, good is good. There are people who’ve literally, on the way out of here,
’cause we fired them, but I let them control
their communications, have told people that they’re quitting, have said that I’m the biggest
piece of shit of all time and I’m completely full of shit, burned everything around
them in their last week before they left, and three years later are referring business to us. Because if you’re right,
if you’re in a good place you’re in a good place. Of course people are gonna go to Glassdoor and tell everybody Vayner Media sucks, or to their best friend
that Vayner Media sucks when they get fired. People don’t like getting fired. Who likes getting fired? Nobody thinks you’re right. But over time, they get context, and as long as I am kind
and my intent is right and I’m trying to do the right things, that plays out. And I’m okay with being judged, definitely by the outside,
you know, that comment, right. But even willing to be judged with people that should know better
’cause they’re right here, because they’re in pain at the time.

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