Tom Hunt: Internet Marketing For Small Business


everybody Ben Gothard here with
another project egg interviewing today we’re talking with Tom hunt from London
how you doing today Tom um doing fantastically well today thank you
awesome awesome and thank you so much for jumping on I want to jump right in
and ask you the first question which is what is your story awesome okay so my
story I think it’s slightly different to some other entrepreneurs in there I
didn’t really do anything entrepreneurial until I was 22 you know
you hear like Warren Buffett or gave them took like selling newspapers when
they’re like three years old but I didn’t do that I I just thought followed
their okay i intelligent school but i just followed the the crowd like what my
mum wanted me to do what my brother did and so I ended up finishing University
studying chemistry Imperial College in London and then because all of my
friends and my mum wanted me and my brother did I went into management
consulting I never I never really cared about what I was doing so well fountain
young and then I worked for Accenture okay for I get more money and do better
work at Accenture they were still same they’re still boring so but then at the
pivotal moment actually the 22 was when me and my two best friends started a a
male leggings company and this was just because we wanted to speak to girls that
the pretty pretty girls over the market next to our house in London that we used
to go to and so the logic was if we had a market stall on on the market with
selling leggings for men we’d be able to speak to the pretty girl so we buy some
female leggings from ebay drawn our male logo and trying to sell them on the
market with Sam in a freedom code for eight hours and how many do you think
that we sold in those eight hours been oh no we had 18 pairs and we saw zero
but I threw nothing but we had a good time so inside it the cost was so low we
created a e-commerce store and then like two months later we sold a
pair to somebody that we didn’t know and that was a moment that this is a pivotal
moment because you could do something you could help someone else and get paid
for it that was like the magical feeling and so really ever since then that was
really though forefinger guarantee that was a point in time at which everything
afterwards was different and so recent then I’ve invested probably a
disproportionate amount of time or too much time basically into learning how to
help people out I guess but it in exchange for money not charitable yet
and so that really I guess that’s the story and that like the live overseas
from that time I was the start 2013 to now like a lot happened but that was the
pivotal man that is awesome on me and that’s awesome you know you know I want
you I want to jump a little bit more into your past so you’re saying that you
started off not doing anything entrepreneurial until you’re about 22
you may be digging to a little bit more of what you were doing in that time and
in kind of your mindset at that time and how it’s different from it is today
great questions yeah so I I was good at school I got good grades at school but
and I was like science and math and so I basically met my brother went to he was
also very clever he went study engineering in Durham which is the
University in the top of in the north of England which is like pretty good and we
were always very competitive so like okay I have to be Sam and so I try I
call an interview Oxford with a no rejected let him read know that much
about chemistry up and I got accepted into Imperial so I came to appeal
because I saw was like better arm so I could be my brother and I I liked
chemistry I spent four years studying it and I got to one when she was like a
good degree but it wasn’t I didn’t really have any passions
apart from wooden tales passion about chemistry I I was more just like doing
doing the minimum and I work here too one like a good job then the rest of the
time was to spend social I think my drinking or like
living to music right and so I I guess I’m in terms of mindset like or how I
thought it was a very I guess of how selfish of like the I I knew minimum
have work to get the best degree I’m gonna get a job into Sonos money I
thought you’ve all if I focused on like upon me like the employee mindset but
then after that singularity point that we just discussed I started realizing
that if you could focus if you saw take the focus off of yourself and on to
other people you can actually a live a much more fulfilling and successful life
so I think that that’s the major difference from pre 22 years old 22
years old it’s a focus less on my own selfish desires and more on the divide
of other people absolutely that’s a great point because you know there’s I
think it’s Peter Drucker that said the management guru that a business’s
purpose is to create customers and you can’t create customers or customers if
you’re not helping other people so I think it’s really wise of you to say
that so after you graduated it seems like there was a little bit of that
point in between when you started to work a little bit you said management
consulting and then you went more into the e-commerce side with it with the
leggings could you maybe give a little bit of insight on on what you’re doing
in that time and and kind of who you were as a person and how that experience
maybe helped you to develop later on yeah so I spent two years working in a
big four accounting company but in the advisory section and we were advising on
IT systems so you’re going to work with I spend a lot of time working in virgin
media here at telecoms company in UK about what was the best like how they
could better use the IT systems and what was the best use of their IT systems so
I didn’t really care about that I did care about like the development and
learning so bringing like four new people that would come in how they learn
what to do and how you build like how you make people enjoy what they’re doing
so I did some of that internal work which is awesome but the other the
probably the biggest project or most enjoyable part of a project I do with
absent young this is very important because it’s all shaped wide this will
next few years with a internal project on how we can use more people in India
within UI people in India to improve the margin on projects and so this was we
were trying to persuade the other people within our department to use India more
and I found that very interesting they want to move to
I work in like tech consulting and I worked with Vodafone another telecom
company and this was all about how they could take the work they were doing in
Europe and give it to people in India in Accenture India and then Accenture India
would give it back to Vodafone India and so again like outsourcing and making
like becoming more efficient like building systems and becoming more
efficient if they’re actually gonna get past the e-commerce sale that’s the
pivotal moment here because I realized that I needed to leave my job after
making that sale and so then I started to look around how people were making
money like the study of business started here and I also looked at what I was
good at what I had experience and credibility in so the business I built
over a 12-month period to allow me to leave Accenture it replaced my salary
from Accenture and more with simply a small outsourcing company so I was
connecting startups in London with a team of people I built in the
Philippines and so obviously I could come in and say X management console
from Accenture Tom hunt have worked with Vodafone outsourcing their work and he’s
now spun off on an on his own and it’s providing put of lower-cost
awesome resources to startups in London so that was out my angle and then we
build the company and then that sort of enabled me to leave Accenture which was
at the time a monumental achievement of myself I kind of look at what the
question was now like what what were they doing in that time period say I
thought explain why doing that I’m better than I thought
get forward a little bit Hey look okay yeah absolutely absolutely means does
your interview and I really love hearing about your story so that pivotal moment
okay and I want to talk about that for a little while because I think it’s
crucial for people who are just getting started for entrepreneurs who they feel
it you know they they have that yearning to succeed but maybe they they don’t
have the confidence yet to just take that plunge take that leap and and you
know like you said quit the job which awesome that’s awesome congratulations
on that what advice could you give to people who need to take that jump and
maybe just don’t know how take the time to leave a job to leave the job or to
get started on their arms get in here yeah okay good question I
think um I actually think the secret was the secret here
um and it’s actually crucial for a really big success in any area of life
um and that is to to let go of the opinions of other people humans have
this need and requirement to form social bonds and when the social month weekend
it can threaten the person who is standing still who isn’t changing and
and so when you have these socializing and you start to change and you start to
sort of move out and become different and do different things you’re gonna
feel a lot of resistance and if you don’t have the ability to ignore that
become aware of it and take action anyway you’re probably just gonna stay
in exactly the same place so for anybody considering whether they should start
business or or leave her job if you want to do that it become aware of the fact
that people are going to start saying things about you and they’re not gonna
want you to change that’s natural like don’t hate them for
it that’s natural but the most important skill you can do it to enable you to
surpass those opinions if the ability to stop caring about how other people think
so the question the logical question now is what is that like how do you do that
like how do you stop caring and if stuff if there’s no like secret it’s just too
slowly a slow deserved evasion so I’ve done many things to train myself so
caring what people think lay whether that’s just going to talk to people
industry whether that’s going on national TV wearing their leggings and
so now like people like anybody actually or when people do you like give opinions
like I take them but then I’m also like okay cool that’s handing out so yeah
that’s that’s my that’s a secret I think in you know I agree with you completely
it’s so important to be able to take what they say with a grain of salt and
let it go you know because because either there’s a there’s a
a really wise man who once told me and his name escapes me that part of the job
of an entrepreneurs to learn a lot but another half of the battle that’s only
half the battle the other half is to unlearn a lot and so you know we’ve been
we’ve been brought up with with these things of go go to school get good
grades get a good job you know like you were saying you had pressure from your
from your mom and you wanted to compete with your brother
well entrepreneurs we’re playing a completely different game so it you know
it doesn’t really matter what people like that thing if you’re not an
entrepreneur if you’re not already doing it then your opinion is not should not
be as as influential on all entrepreneurs right so I would I would
take the opinion of somebody like you who’s been an entrepreneur who’s out
there who’s you know doing this who’s wearing male leggings on national
television and not caring at all because it’s awesome I would say I would like to
take your advice as opposed to a teacher professor who hasn’t even started
business I’m not knocking formal education all just you know just an
example so you know I do want to talk a little bit about that competition now
between you and your brother because you know I think that probably had a lot to
do with where you where you went and you kind of develop how important was that
competition to your entrepreneurial success and competition in general with
you just talk about it yeah I mean I I think of a deeper point and the teeth
point is the it was a competition with my brother but for my mother attention I
think if you really get down to it like if you really won’t get deep and so
you’ve had the first child tell you like favorite and then we I have a little
sister uh she’s like a girl right so she’s lost a favor and then I’m just in
the middle like striving like tryna get attention and I was always like oh no
you won so but basically I think I’ve Matthew I think of a massive driving
factor before everything I do is to get my mouse approval which I think a toe
care field where every I probably saw that out by talking to where I guess but
I haven’t done that yet and so now isn’t massive absolutely
massive like I’ve like my drive to be successful with I primarily
associated with that competition in general yeah I think the permit like
playing sport when I was younger like you get this like I kind of like being
the underdog because people think they barely knew and then you pee them then
it feels amazing so yeah I think competition is it can be detrimental it
I think it depends on the person and so if you you don’t like competition then I
don’t think you would even be an entrepreneur it’s kind of if
entrepreneurialism kind of just one big you could see as wonder game right and
you’re trying to win so yeah I think it’s a bad one absolutely absolutely
glad you said that now I want to I want to jump back a
little bit to that first time when you got those 18 pairs of leggings what did
you learn from not selling a single one of those what what did you what did you
take away from that and and I think the bigger question is how is how important
is failure to being an entrepreneur so what do we take away I think we took
away the most important thing with that we enjoyed it right and so knowing that
we enjoyed this and also knowing the complete like lack of costs required to
sign e-commerce store like it’s literally like you buy a domain and you
pay Shopify $30 month that enabled us to move forward so – despite the favorite
in certainly if kind of added to the joke Rio this this is hilarious with
doing the thing all these people don’t understand up here
that’s a frame that we took but your question about failure yeah so it’s been
quite popularized in the entrepreneurial community that they did a good thing I
think failure the good thing if you learn if you learn from it so like
you’re set up to fail like you set out to win but if I say okay as long as you
can adapt to your behavior in the future it
comes down to um this is big in society like I don’t know if you’ve ever studied
system theory I I’m not by far like definitely not an expert but they
basically say that systems are self-organizing collection of parts that
can only are effective if their feedback making mechanism occurs so the parts
interact a result or an emergent property is produced and then effective
systems can then measure the emergent property and then use that information
to change the word part interact and that’s how for example the plane will
sort of fly if a plane is flying from New York to San Francisco it’s not like
this line it’s following it’s being dragged there what if a she doing is
taking act taking the system it’s producing an emergent property like the
direction and the rate at which the plane is moving and then taking a small
measurement and then feeding that back into the loop so I’d like to take that
analogy and then apply that to yourself or your business so you you bring
together these parts you put you in an emergent property in this case there are
sales of leggings on the market how many any type of information and
when you feed that back into the system and then you produce something else in
this case it was a website on the internet with an e-commerce store and
then that didn’t quite work and so we had to change stuff and then we’ve got
real male leggings developed in Shanghai got them over and then after a couple of
months the emergent property was a sale of the pair of leggings so okay we did
them right here and then we we took that feedback and then we fed it back in and
now we sell more say yeah the reason failing is important is so you can get
that the feedback information but it’s not something to be glorified as a
winning I don’t think absolutely absolutely now
I really like the analogy that you just gave with the system and in inputs my
question to you is and you know I really want to provide value so maybe we could
break it down and really make it clear when you do have that that certain
output okay and maybe there’s some part of your system that it’s not working how
you working you need to fix it you need to
upgrade it you need to tinker with it how do you know which part isn’t working
and how do you know where a fix it and how do you know what to change
incrementally in order to not miss something that you thought that you
thought was what’s not there mm-hmm so I think would be if we just focus on
marketing with the internet especially quite the your ability to get very very
accurate feedback on different properties is fantastic now with like
Google tag manager so it like any link you pound out into the world
if you use Google tag manager you can see exactly like where they came from so
you can track everything and if you let’s say we’re talking about you
commerce you can connect your Shopify store with Google Analytics so that you
give up Google tag manager links and then you can see exactly where every
sale comes from like the exact dollar amount so with the internet and like
Facebook Google tracking at the moment is only getting better like that helped
that’s very helpful on the marketing side and the other parts of the business
I think are trickier so for example product development let’s say we produce
pair of leggings so that everyone hates their NFL any would just have low sales
and maybe that’s because the campaign marketing campaign wasn’t good move
there to take the design so it’s a bit trickier in that sense but that ability
to identify what might be right or wrong does improve with the experience so to
summarise think marketing is iev now if f’ing other areas in the system will
will come with experience so so the advice is just keep going and keep
trying to do it and eventually it’ll it’ll it’ll work out or how does it want
to really give themselves the best opportunity for success I like yes I
agree exactly we just said that you have to keep trying stuff but they’re an
important caveat that is understanding your resources like then the
limit of your resources and then every attempt or every bet you could you could
say I have a limited downside so left for you like we can make them all
tangible I made a bet in 2014 on a digital
currency called Bitcoin which was a stupid thing to do like a tenth of my
net worth I invested in this currency and after a year of down to 40% of the
value so that in hindsight was not a good bet for that like it like coming
away from entrepreneurship and moving into investment that was an investment
that was foolish because I took a bet they could have worked her well and
after 12 months it was down very low now it’s like three times as much maybe it
was good that but no it wasn’t because I could have wiped out eight that my net
worth so though that’s an example of not being intelligent and I try to think of
any club yeah an example of being intelligent was us
going to market like with the total investment to do their market 100 maybe
150 dollars between three peoples 350 Dorothy we lost that investment but we
enjoyed ourselves and be learn about how you sell leggings and how you buy
leggings and so then that investment has yes that was a loss but it has fueled
what we’ve been able to achieve in the past four years with the leggings
company I we’re talking about about legs it’s probably my least successful
business but and yeah we’re we could just keep on talking about a legged if
you want to do well so that actually that brie that’s a good point we talked
a little bit about your past maybe you could give a little insight on what
you’re really focusing on now and you know whatever that whatever that may
mean to you but whatever you’re doing currently yeah sure so um the like
Before we jump into that they’re like the cool one like my biggest thing when
people know me for the my high school best Valley so it’s just connecting
Filipinos for business with entrence or up work but but just for Filipino versus
isn’t so I feel that like I realized that the service the startup out for
thing service was with awesome bio self-employed I
wanted to become the entrepreneur so I built their online marketplace with the
development team in Egypt launched it starts 2016 and then sold it to the 90%
of it to a marketing company in Florida four months ago not to mess him out but
for an okay I’m at and and and so though the reason I bring that up is because
there was a six-month time between when I had the idea to when the platform
launched partially Claire’s youth development team in Egypt idea wasn’t
working directly with coda but that’s a long time right without validation at
the idea although it’s kind of outdated because
people you thought work but it should have been faster anyway so what I
focused on now is the software product that myself or my business partner who
sits right next to me here in the office is a at all for e-commerce stores to
help them use their customers to get more customers at the tag line social
selling automation software is also V this description but the reason I bring
up the virtual valley thing is because from idea to having a working product
and 11 people paying us $25 per month with seven weeks and so that I where
we’re really happy with the progress on this one so far and so that is my
hundred percent with a couple of little things like the leggings and a fence
company in London so probably ninety percent focus is on this piece of
software that myself my business partner a building on that so maybe you could
you could you could talk a little bit more about the this new software you
know maybe yeah give it give us a little teaser if you will and where you kind of
came up with the idea in you know tell us all bad yeah basically so we’re going
back to the leggings again I keep talking about it there’s sort of
parental business in my life we-we-we thoughtful years ago we didn’t
know how to sell anything online we didn’t have to drive traffic but what we
did do after read the book start with y by sinus I neck was created story and a
mission behind the brand so when people did buy they were – it and were telling
their friends and sharing images than themselves and leggings on social media
this was good because it will support my customers because their friends probably
liked the mission as well it also gave us content we could put back onto our
social tunnels and back onto our website and so this meant that when we did learn
how to drive traffic every customer we acquired a slightly more valuable the
only problem was this process like after identified it with taking a lot of our
time or monitoring the Philippines time and so when myself and my business
partner were in the / but for that January after a previous company
effectively failed we were sort of going through different stuff we were doing at
the time and working out what could potentially be automated so we started
trying to automate that bad loop that’s talking about see somebody buying
somebody sharing and the brand being able to use the content on there in
social media on their product pages official proof and so after about three
weeks we started to automate part of the process and we’ve got other brands in to
come and start testing software and then as of two weeks ago we had the whole
loop automated so brand can come in they can set up a campaign which would offend
a lot of people to share after they buy if somebody shares they can sort of just
press a few buttons and it’ll be loaded onto their social channels or onto their
Potter pages on their store if they using Shopify and so that like the the
the the idea is that the brand goes into sets campaign sounds like one or two
hours setting all up and then after I just have to login once per week to
review and approve submissions so basically using their army of customers
that they already have to help them create content for the brand but also
finding new customers that fee that’s a pitch that’s awesome that’s awesome and
and at what stage is it narrow it seems like you said you have a few people who
are using it already or is it is it like in a beta testing stage where it whereas
yeah we have 60 50 people who have used it since we started we let’s try letting
people in about a month ago eleven of them are paying a monthly subscription
so yeah we wearing a bit of test that’s going to stop probably mid
midweek and then people will have will only gain by paying the monthly
subscription now but we have converted 11 of them already over in so you know
for entrepreneurs who may be wanting to have a similar business model of you
have an app and and it does some sort of function and then you need to bring in
beta testers how do you go about doing that I mean how do you find the people
the right people to come beta test how do you how do you use that to better the
app and then how do you monetize from there yes so you the great book on this
is all this is what we followed this book is the four steps to the Epiphany
by come of a guy’s name but he inspired the Lean Startup movement so the the
idea is that you have you and your product development team whether
outsource an agency or your business plan know your tech co-founder you have
an idea for the product just because you have an expertise in the area and the
business partner the product development team will start building that product
you as a non-technical person if your job to do customer development which
basically means finding people that will buy your initial spec so your question
how do you find those people you basically make a prediction about the
type of person that would want to use this software and then work out where
they are online and then either pay money or create content that’s valuable
enough to gather eyeballs on the effectively ad and then drive people
back to a typical call with you so the way we did it like the most the best
channel for us was going to Facebook groups and Shopify Facebook groups
writing value posts about how you build brand how you get your customers to
praise you and then I’d say if anybody at the bottom or like in bracket
somewhere in the post I’d be like if anybody would like to be the Teflon you
tool that helps automate this process comment below and so we had some
Facebook Pope like some amazing has to be amazing posts that we had like 30
people 30 beer testers comment just from one post in one group so that that’s it
so you have to start building something that you think you’re gonna be variable
you have to make a prediction about who that person is
go find them and you either create content that’s able or you pay money and
you drag people get back to get on a cool with you that’s the most important
you have to get them on a call because those life you’re not going to be able
to get the information from them to that will tell you whether they would pay for
it whether they like it and how they would change it so I’ve now had a visit
this seven weeks probably sixty calls with people where I’ve explained all the
tall is I’ve shown them what told us on my screen then I give them their login
details and get them to log in and they go through the process of using pool
while I’m watching writing notes in Trello that goes direct letting my
business partner see is like straight away and he manages v Trello board of
what people think what needs to be changed and how that’s gonna be updated
so that’s the prototype of the fine apply your question that’s how do is pay
what we did a little bit sneaky I didn’t there is we said anybody who got on the
call to end on the Budapest we said be testing completely free but if you at
the end of the Buda period we’re sort of giving a fifty percent lifetime discount
to our beta testers so you can lock that in by having your credit card details
now to the app you won’t get charged but you can lock that in it by adding your
credit card details we do ask our beta testers that I credit card details first
you can take them off the fins become a beater I’ll tell you you Tomas and that
converted well you can read it okay well that’s all we have the eleven people I
guess um and so now they’re paying like fifty percent maybe fifteen lifetime to
expel was twenty five dollars per month and so when we start getting normal
people in this week they well what fee if they convert fifty dollars per month
but that’s that’s the plan that’s the structure we use and it was effective
probably only effectively because I have a very good coder who’s just making me
every day um it would have taken a lot longer and a lot more expensive working
with an agency or outsource development team absolutely
absolutely it’s brilliant in and you know I do want to thank you for
providing value on this call you know I think I think it’s the name of the game
you know you said you said in the beginning one of the things that was so
important to you and instrumental was helping people and and doing some sort
of assistance you know to others you maybe talk about how important that is
to one give to the to the community in some way and
to really structure a business around providing value yeah I think there are
two reasons why you would want to help people um I’m not gonna say like whether
they’re selfish I’m selfish loading up that she pretty pointless reason I’m one
is if the great marketing strategy all right so the oh yeah it’s a great
marketing a business strategy right the more you can see through the eyes of
your customer and provide them what they want the more likely you’re gonna get
paid so that’s like that’s like fundamental alright but the second one I
think many many people know this is this comes out of an understanding from
evolutionary biology and I I’m a big fan of the theory that we thought evolved
many years ago and we’re now board for time that does not like this and and if
you want to make yourself happy you have to understand how your body was evolved
toward to want to be happy so shimming the theory is correct we
evolved in these small tribes 150 people and that in order to for the tribe to be
successful and therefore yourself everybody had to work together as a team
and if somebody was hurt or somebody was not happy you would do things for them
to make them happy and just say the same for you you’re not happier if you heard
them people do stuff for you and therefore like that would make for an
effective tribe and therefore those genes would be passed through so if we
translate that forward to today your body is going to reward you for helping
other people because that’s what unable to try to survive if every and tribe of
selfish and if you have each other then the tribe would have died in theory
and would not the genes would not pass ward so that’s also I guess if selfish
less altruistic reason for being for helping people is essentially gonna make
you happier yourself because that’s how your body has involved absolutely man
that that’s a great answer that’s a fantastic answer and and I think looking
to the Past to to learn is incredibly important and and you know so I’m really
glad you brought that up and you’re speaking about about learning and
educating yourself how else did you go about as an
entrepreneur educating yourself in business and just entrepreneurship in
general I mean did you read did you have mentors how did how did you go about
doing that yeah so I had i-i’ve been a ever since that the fail that we made
was a pair of leggings I probably read hundreds of business books I think I
quite fortunately I’m my personality rewards myself my body rewards myself
for learning I think that’s probably because I was trained lay my pants
climbing to intellectual I was trained when I was younger to like this process
so I just had this natural yearning to learn stuff especially when it changes
my outer world and makes my life better and able to meet several people so yeah
like reading all the time I had one eye I had one mentor he was
immensely helpful just like being around him so I I I spent time like working in
a business and he basically that meant I got paid but I also got get to like
above him and he is a very amazing person and so that’s a grace to actually
so I realized and even mentor start 2016 him of him saying he’s like a big
entrepreneurial star I’m saying I think I can help you with your marketing I’ll
take you for lunch they went for lunch and then we start
going together so that was pretty cool so reading mentors and third thing I
think is actually crown point is is if peer groups so not people that are like
super far ahead of you they would be or metal but people they may be slow
burying you in some areas like working in some areas but you like hang around
in chat basically means that you’re like double earning power so you would go off
and learn about your commerce this person goes off and learns about like
Facebook Ads and then you come back and you have like dinner or drinks and then
you like if you get the knowledge from there and you also give knowledge favor
I think I have great if there’s different peer groups like in comics
different pay groups in like software at startup world so I think those three
things have been instrumental in my development so it’s reading
mentals and pig rib that’s awesome that’s awesome
and so for people who may be struggling a little bit to find either a mentor or
a good peer group to join what advice would you give them to seek those people
out and and how do you identify somebody who would be a good mentor or group of
people who would be a good peer group yeah so this mental and VV is tough who
has done the things that you want to do and then you find them and you help them
I say it like if we think about the email life and a guy of like I’ll tell
you for lunch I will buy lunch I’ll help you with your marketing
I won’t drag us down by the way that’s pretty much the email like I sent and it
works a you need like a core the core the important part there with you have
to offer to help right you come after all for the value first and then it will
come back see that’s what mentors find someone who’s done what you wanted to
find out how you can help them and then peer group is kind of the same like how
do you find them again it’s like finding people that are doing the things that
you want to do and how do you do that I think that pretty face was probably
great place like go and find to be Facebook group Facebook groups I like
I’m big on Facebook username and I’m part of yours I’d say shout out so find
the Facebook group here the strategy yet to go find a Facebook group into or go
and find like 10 Facebook using your niche right if you’re in Shopify they’re
amazing Michelle play ones and in just right like an intro post flow different
in each of them so you don’t look like spamming and just say explain what you
do and what you trying to learn and where you are and then in theory let’s
see if you did that you’re based in LA or like New York you probably find
people that are in the same area with the same interests and that that’s a
little I am actually tried that but I think that would probably work
absolutely absolutely it’s a great point and you know even even if you don’t find
somebody locally I mean you can still you can still connect with someone on
skype or on Facebook and and I think that the power of the Internet allows us
to escape the the bonds of location you know we can we can go and connect with
people all around the world and really form a global coming
so I’m glad you brought that up but you know we talked a little bit about your
past we talked a little bit about what you’re doing right now could you go into
the future for us and and not going to the future but to talk a little bit
about your future where do you see yourself you know later down the road
what would what’s kind of the biggest thing that you want to accomplish in
your lifetime yeah so I I’m a big fan of yeah explain
to me best like I could have taken not personally on his training programs and
the developmental model for an employee to self-employed to entrepreneur to
investor to philanthropist and so we go back to system theory the employee is
the one who works in system the self-employed person is the system the
entrepreneur creator system and the investor investing people that make the
system influence places like different different section and and so I’ve like
I’ve tried I go back through like the past ten years of my life and I track
myself going through these levels and so right now so I came out of the
self-employed when I stopped doing the consulting business and now I’m like
deep into the entrepreneur level I have made one angel investment and I’ve been
on full my name VidCon so I kind of like have dabbled of the investor level but I
really need like a I don’t need but what’s going to happen is a big a
successful entrepreneur level so anybody to make that jump fully into the
investor level right so in each of these stages there are three different mini
stages so there’s like the part we’re just learning there’s a part where
you’re creating value and then it’s a part where you can accumulate value
shelter and there were you technically jumps on that level so where I say I was
at the moment if in the middle of the entrepreneur level create value and then
I’ll start killing their value probably with the sale of a cash producing asset
that will enable me to move into the investor stage so I think you know five
years right so I think that in the next two three years we’ll sell one of these
systems and that will provide the liquidity and the resources to make the
jump to the investor level where I will I think I would maybe start another
entrepreneurial ventures sometimes nice feature but it’s nice and fun being an
investor and then ultimately would move into philanthropy but that’s fully going
to be in 20 or 30 years I have massive resources
and massive experience I can actually make a bigger difference absolutely
absolutely that’s great and and so you know you talked about going through
these stages what’s been in in your opinion with what’s been the most fun
like what have you enjoyed the most about about your entrepreneurial I I
think probably the early stages of building the systems and so well that’s
like the market or the leggings we left going to my first failed meeting trying
to sell vert pistons whether that’s the first week of launching the online
marketplace of six we’ll fix math building whether that’s what we’re doing
right now with these the eleven people paying a phone if I dollop enough I
think that those like making the first sales like helping the first customers
is probably the most energetic like the most vibrant fulfilling part and I’m
sure that we that will be missed in the future and so the most people like going
through the early days are about to go under thirty days make sure you uh savor
them however stressful they may be absolutely absolutely and you know I do
think that there’s something to be said about you know being on the ground floor
and you know being in there in that grind mode in that hustle mode every day
you know working for something so you’ve been doing this for a while you’ve been
an entrepreneur for a little while what would you say is your best story of
entrepreneurship a nice fun I think so I think the whole Dragons Den thing was
very good so we basically dragged my shark tank
within the UK so we my my to business class didn’t to go so I had to go to the
BBC studio in London all of my own wearing leggings to audition and finally
going in and then had to persuade them to go on TV in the rerun on TV and it’s
just so funny like we were just wearing leggings with stupid clothes and then we
had our own models with just like our three boroughs walk before that though
that was was a very funny story or very enjoyable um
we should with the high point really low we got slated but it was good fun a low
point this is actually interesting so I spent I was currently you know they
prolly year well I lift around the world building the marketplace and so we spent
like six months and the mock place was about to launch those in Venezuela like
an island off Venezuela which can have the best economy at the time and I is so
stupid they were like literally the next week we’re launching but I let in a
contractor from India he was helping develop a different business I had could
we help the virus yet again sorta out into the shared hosting camp where we
like the five months of coding coding and I used to lead everything apart from
that one small website and Hostgator couldn’t get it back i we can host get a
support and she said I quote this isn’t Windows of them thinking I should get
their back and so they’re basically meant that all of the functional code
the development team had kept and fortunately all of the front-end code
like we were good-looking stuff was just gone and so I was just an absolute
disaster along with like other blog posts and other web faith I had all of
the content was just disappeared then at the same time
well my macbook air though I was building that business on just decided
to stop working and I was in Venezuela you couldn’t get anything done so I
couldn’t basically that would that was like the poori one of the low point in
my entrepreneurial career um because when you spend all the time like your
income is gonna rely on this marketplace if you haven’t spent you haven’t built
anything up anything else up you have no money like coming in apart from this in
theory it’s like your world ended like you can’t think about anything else and
it’s just so stressful feel they came in like I flew back to England and then we
launched a month later it’s a bad but so that was a high point neither dragons
anything than the low point is not taking backups and letting people into
your shit hosting account and being in Venezuela it’s not bad I think but like
maybe not having it back up laptop with my mink or not so not making sure my
laptop was well cared for and those other points absolutely
store it in so you know I want to talk a little bit more about about about your
future you know you’ve been doing all these different things that you know now
you’re kind of a retail and e-commerce and management consulting and and now
you’re moving more into software who do you want to be known as you know when
when when people think Tom hunt what do you want them what do you want first to
come to mind like who do you see yourself as questions um I I want to be
seen III do like the label of the the
definite definition entrepreneur I also like Internet
I think Internet I shouldn’t really I can’t even comment on the Empire was
howling so I do like the the label internet entrepreneur that’s who I’d
like to be team house even when I do become like the investor and I think how
maybe like I’ll do investing for a while then I’ll jump back into being an
entrepreneur and maybe in biotech maybe in blockchain but on a sister a business
system that can have a much bigger impact so yeah I like Internet I like
entrepreneur so that’s what we’ve a label they’d like to see now and you
know if you could go back and you could talk to yourself right you know way
early on knowing everything that you know now what advice would you give
yourself I think it would be to to place less important less importance on the
result and to enjoy process more time think of the bug lucky throw where the
I’m not going to go into story though it’s complex but basically the quote
from that book that you do not have the rights to the fruits of your actions
does the actions themselves and so why this is so important is because when you
do for this you place too much importance on
getting the the actual thing like sometimes or things are more likely to
go wrong when you on the journey to get the thing worth if you just remain calm
and focus and engaged in the day-to-day work you’re doing paradoxically you
actually more likely to get the thing anyway and so especially earlier on in
my entrepreneurial career I was always focusing like the end result like
getting the money like getting the products for getting the new website
looking great the posts are like focused on creating the valuable products great
marketing and the system itself where’s now I’m training myself to be more
focused and more engaged in my dict activities and then at the end of the
day just shaking okay we made them as many great like putting especially like
whatever so that’s if for people out there they are so focused on getting
that n below and maybe that’s a annoyed to to read and to study
absolutely absolutely thank you that so you know I do wanna I do want to thank
you for your time it’s been greater and you’d really enjoy a really enjoyed
chatting with me but but I do have one more question for you is there anything
that is an important part of who you are that I did not ask you about today in
other words what did I miss mmm-hmm that’s a really good question so
we covered the part about like the competition with my brother and stuff
anything that that’s like that’s one of the fundamental driving forces I have I
never talked about a second one Ivan leave the tool I think early inferential
um second one as well likely I’m being that a dog and like seeing with people
that either thing that Bella knew you also like seized power when maybe they
shouldn’t have and then source not being the person in power but I’m still like
flying against them and then winning ultimately so I think that came from for
me like maybe no game paid for like though the best sports team but then
having to play against them in their training match and then trying to win or
like winning and so that’s why I like Internet that’s why I like blockchain
technologies is because the impact you can have without permission without
having massive resources it really really fuels that part of
myself and makes me excited about the future you know there’s great do you say
that because you mentioned start with y by simon Sinek earlier and one of his
anecdotes in the book is about how Steve Wozniak and and and Jobs how they they
started to you know build their company and and the whole point behind it was
and I I think I think he says this directly in the book in one of the first
few pages of it was that Wozniak wanted to build a computer that if he could put
it into the hands of the individual they would be able to take on a vastly out
resourced major corporation and so he you know it’s cool you said that kind of
came full circle mmm but but that’s awesome and that yeah no III didn’t
member that putter book but now you think about it like everybody like with
I’m on a Mac now right I can I’m using this machine to like take out if I’m
really taking on corporations but I hopefully in the future but it like it
seems like it can’t you for those guys yeah absolutely
absolutely man so to everybody listening I definitely highly encourage you to
check out Tom’s new app whenever you know whenever you get the chance I’m
going to put put the link in the description below not sure if I cannot
quite put it out yet cuz it’s a beta testing but whenever it is they way but
I think by the time this interview goes up it’ll be available and we can do like
we can we can have a trial a free trial for anybody that comes through actually
we’ll give them a link a special link and so anyway the comes in can have an
extended free trial so you can actually see if it’s gonna work for you before
you start investing cash oh yeah we’ll put them in the glue awesome awesome
yes we’re gonna toss all that in the link below if it scared you Tom my
you know might link to your Facebook and scram all those things and give people a
way to connect with you I definitely encourage everybody to reach out Tom’s
great guys as you can tell from the interview a very knowledgeable very
experienced entrepreneur and if you ever have any questions about male legging
this is probably the guy yeah if any persons about anything we spoke about
today or like anything about on a marketing entrepreneurship you can
either tweet me Twitter at Tom and I or just email me Tom at Tom hunt and I will
be more than happy to give my insight if I can absolutely and again I’m gonna put
all that stuff in the in the description below
so I do want to thank you again Tom for for jumping on this interview it has
been a pleasure and to everybody listening I want to thank you all for
listening and and for you know coming back and for really giving this show
this podcast the life because without you
you know we I’m not doing it for anybody so so all of the reason we do it I love
y’all and I want to thank you all so much for being a part of this and being
on the journey with us so this has been another project dag interview and today
we’ve been talking to you Tom hunt from London that we going you

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